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October 16, 2005
CWA and Cingular
A reader passed this on--it's the tale of Cingular Wireless workers joining the Communications Workers of America. Off of the CWA website comes this: "On Oct. 13, the largest single day of union recognition by former AT&T Wireless workers at Cingular, nearly 1,800 Customer Care and Retail Sales employees gained representation with CWA. The American Arbitration Association certified that a majority of the employees in the locations over 1,600 at three customer care centers in California and 84 retail sales associates statewide in Nevada -- supported CWA representation. With these latest campaigns, more than 7,900 former AT&T Wireless workers at Cingular have gained CWA representation this year. Since August, the number of Cingular Wireless employees with CWA representation has grown from 22,000 to nearly 30,000. The workers been organizing at a rate of over 110 a day since they were covered by CWA's neutrality agreement with Cingular. "
As our reader pointed out, "Most folks don't realize this but Verizon Wireless is vehemently anti-union. They are the Wal-Mart of communications. After many years of organizing efforts, only 50 technicians are union represented at Verizon, Despite the fact that at the core (wireline) Company, they are highly unionized. Verizon has kept a steel curtain of seperation between these two units. On the core side they seek cooperation and heap praise ,at wireless we are scum suckers. "
"Verizon's explanation; they are two separate companies and Verizon core has no control of Verizon wireless. Yeah Right! Contrast that with CWA and Cingular. Cingular has a Neutrality and Card Check Agreement that they actually respect and live up to. And the results have been unprecedented. As a CWA member and a Verizon employee I am extremely proud to be a Cingular Wireless subscriber. At meetings with Verizon management, they express shock and disappointment when they learn that my cell service is Cingular. Why? How could I? Verizon is your employer! I love telling them that Verizon Wireless is a separate company and therefore, not my employer, That Cingular is represented by CWA and that as a CWA member I get a 15% discount too boot! (10% for AFL_CIO members). Verizon core doesn't give any discount for wireless to its employees as Verizon wireless is a ........separate company."
Of course, it's great that CWA is organizing new folks and putting the effort into such campaigns. But, it also jumps out at me how huge the task is: just to move union representation up one percent in the private sector, unions have to organize a NET of 1.5 million workers. At a clip of 1,800 per shot, it's going to take a loooonnnnnggggg time to get there--if ever.
October 16, 2005 in Inside Labor | Permalink
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Comments
You are right on about the problems of scale. 1600 is a very big unit in a lot of contexts.
Posted by: benton | Oct 16, 2005 11:15:19 PM
Verizon services the Northeast where there is high union density. The CWA and AFL-CIO should urge union/working class customers to boycott Verizon until the Wireless is organized. It will take solidarity like this to save the labor movement.
Posted by: Doug | Oct 16, 2005 11:32:45 PM
Jonathan,
What do you think about the potential of Working America in helping with this problem of scale? They just passed one million members around labor day. That's in a year and a half. Members are legally AFL-CIO members and can be contacted by the political program. The only way we are going to grow our way out of this is with the support of non-union workers. What are we going to do with this resource?
Carl
Posted by: Carl | Oct 17, 2005 12:13:26 AM
CWA is and always will be an organizing union.
For that I say bravo. Our organizers here in CWA District 2 worked their asses off. Verizon Wireless continues to be impossible but our organizers still keep on working it. I think eventually the wireless workers will get unionized. And YES, it may take a long time.
Posted by: Jan | Oct 17, 2005 12:36:00 AM
As a former CWA staff organizer, I agree that CWA is an organizing union and I congratulate AT&T wireless workers on their victories. But the story of Comcast and union busting in telecom is too sad and relevent not to discuss here. Comcast has busted dozens of union shops in recent years and threatens union telecom companies with voice-over-internet services. In California, however, a former colleague of mine is the lone corporate campaigner against Comcasts union busting here. I've read a few articles she's forwarded me from the press. They all cast a pretty doomsday picture for cable, let alone wireless where Cingular battles Verizon and Sprint. How are we going to beat Comcast, Verizon, and the like.
Posted by: Charlie Eaton | Oct 18, 2005 7:46:33 PM
"They are the Wal-Mart of communications"
WHAT? EXCUSE me, do you know how low of wages Wal-Mart pays their employees? Lets compare Companies.
Salary:
Entry Level Wal-Mart Jobs start @ $6.00 per hour
Entry Level Verizon Wireless Jobs start @ $14.00 per hour
Health Care:
Wal-Mart; Expensive, high deductibles and a high percent of Wal-Mart employees receive Federal or State Assistance
Verizon Wireless; Good Health Care with affordable plans and you can add your same sex partner.
Working Conditions:
Wal-Mart; it's proven that Wal-Mart is a sweat-shop and doesn't go out of their way to treat their employees with an ounce or respect. I saw a Wal-Mart Christmas party that was held in the STOCK ROOM of a Wal-Mart store. Prizes were given, but employees had to PURCHASE raffle tickets!!
Verizon Wireless; Very uniform, scheduled breaks, and they even pay overtime!! LIKE GOOD COMPANIES SHOULD DO!
"Verizon core doesn't give any discount for wireless to its employees as Verizon wireless is a ........separate company."
LIARS LIARS ARE YOU PANTS ON FIRE You are a bunch of lying idiots, Verizon Communication Employees receive 25% off their montly VERIZON WIRELESS service. GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT people. Don't go posting information that you pull from a pool of lies to try and get your lying point across.
FACT:
Cingular Employees make A LOT Less money than Verizon Wireless Employees
FACT:
Just because you're in a union, doesn't mean you can't get laid off! My friend worked for Alaska Airlines was in the union with him and 400 other UNION employees were laid off!
OPINION:
Unions are a waste of your money and time.
FACT:
I mean look what the oh so great union did to the NYC Transit workers! Each employee will be held to fines and other State and Federal punishments for the recent strike. Look what the UNION did to all the people who live in NYC. The whole city was shut down because of 40 Top Union Members.
If anyone reads this, all I want you to know is that Unions are hurtful organizations that only hurt American Companies and are brining the tenure companies down.
IF you want to email me about bitch me out, go for it, my email is barry@seattle.com
Later
Posted by: Barry | Dec 25, 2005 2:54:28 PM
I just wanted to say that even though you are union represented, that doesn't change the fact that you can't spell, your grammar is incorrect, and I doubt you even read this article yourself. I can't believe nobody else commented on this before. As for what you said, Verizon Communications and Verizon Wireless ARE two different companies. Also Verizon Wireless DOES give a discount to Verizon Communications employees. Why don't you do your research before posting something this ridiculous next time? Thanks.
Posted by: cricket | Jan 3, 2006 1:50:36 PM
I work at southwest airlines and worked all the way through christmas... they were supposed to give us christmas dinner at the hotel, instead they said they would give us a $30 brunch buffet and thats all they had.... so i waited till the airport...airport restraunts closed....christmas day i cried my eyes out till i got a christmas present from the company, which was a white garbage bag with a bottle of water (that we already have on the plane), a package of old salami, peanuts and pretzels that we already have on the plane, and a plastic can opener...i stopped crying and laughed my ass off....the end... just saying... lol im trying to get a job at verizon....so i shouldnt???
Posted by: Amber | Jan 16, 2006 7:13:18 AM
I work for Cingular and I can tell you that as a bargained employee I didn't even know I was voting the union in by signing a card that did not indicate that my "interest" meant I was voting. The CWA also told us we would be getting raises up to 20+ an hour and this is a lie.
We had better benefits and more freedom before the union came in and from what I can tell alot of representatives that make 15.00+ an hour are pretty mad because the CWA agreement caps our pay at 13.50 an hour!
Former SBC and ATT LD representatives that went to work at Cingular all say that the Cingular CWA agreement is pretty lame.
Posted by: cingular employee | Jan 29, 2006 5:54:16 AM
Around the time that the CWA proudly announced the 1800 California office workers signed up for the CWA, 240 BTS technicians in CA were laid off. 80% of the layoffs were "Orange" bargained for employees. The former ATT (Blue), non bargained technicians kept their jobs, kept their 75K pay, kept their 15% bonus plan, and their 401k profit sharing. Per the LOA signed by ATT Cingular and CWA, these technicians would be moved to the bargaining unit in January 06. This has not happened.
The Orange technicians had accepted the union and were beginning to become union advocates. The Blue technicians hate the CWA and have no interest in joining. Considering their extremely poor workmanship, laziness, and inability to learn new equipment (Ericsson), I believe that they are perfect candidates for union representation.
Posted by: Jib | Feb 23, 2006 10:49:50 PM
Is there any chance you can get me an subsidy unlock code for a v551? I bought it off ebay and live in Canada. I can provide the IMEI for you. Thank you in advance.
Ryan
plastikjesus@hotmail.com
Posted by: Ryan | Mar 9, 2006 10:11:32 PM
I work for Cingular, and have survived two years. Why do Verizon employees make double the money we make and they seem to have comparable benefits and discounts. Great benefits at Cingular, but what is it worth if tree cutters in my area make more than I do? We all join due to solidarity, but if we are doing the same work (actually more do to the new oppressive customer care quality yoke by people who obviously have not answered a call from our great customers!) as our verizon counterparts, why are they receiving more pay in all areas of the country? Money is what this is all about, my family is a strong union family (teamsters!), but they are making more than those that are not union, and make roughly the same wage as someone in their job title. Help me understand?
Posted by: mike | Mar 29, 2006 1:38:58 PM
I was relieved to see a couple of posters here writing the truth about Verizon Wireless. As a VZW employee, I was appalled when I read the outright lies that were posted regarding Verizon Wireless and the relationship with the CWA.
VZW employees (non-represented) enjoy great pay, great benefits and believe me, those benefits are FAR better than those negotiated by the CWA for the small group of organized employees.
Here's a thought - if Verizon Wireless employees wanted to organize with the CWA, why hasn't it happened yet?! The CWA has been attempting to unionize VZW employees for years without any success.
GET A CLUE CWA! LEAVE US ALONE AND STOP SPREADING LIES ABOUT OUR COMPANY!
Posted by: VZW Employee | May 24, 2006 7:55:32 PM
I do not work for Verizon or Cingular or for that matter a company that is unionized, but here's my question for the disgruntled Cingular employee. From my understanding there are 3-5 employees that represent the employees themselves to help negotiate the contract between CWA and Cingular. Meaning, there are peers in your company that voice opinions on your behalf and CWA takes those concerns and works them into the contract with Cingular. You may want to check and see who your employee representatives are and see exactly what they ask for on behalf of all of the employees. Seems to me, you may should be aggravated with your employee reps not CWA.
Posted by: Neutral Party | Jun 11, 2006 12:20:18 PM
I work for Cingular Wireless and must concur that Communication Workers of America is a scam. They gave misleading information about what job titles they would have us classified under, as we do specialized data support for our enterprise customers. So, what were we classified as? A: Customer Support Representatives Level 1. That's right. Mind you, there are only 30 of us in the company that have this job. We are not 'Customer Care'; we are a specialized helpdesk comprising of technically savvy individuals. Many of us are certified technicians or engineers providing I.T. to I.T. support for these HUGE accounts, yet, we were labeled as CSR1. So, how much do I make? I make $13.73 an hour. My ex girlfriend is a copy girl for this family owned law firm and she makes more money than me. Again, my job: highly specialized technical support group supporting all critical data applications for the entire United States of America, (CIA, White House, FBI, all local and state police units, Bellsouth, Qwest Communications, you name it!) = ... $13.73 an hour.
Ex Girlfriend's job: Copy girl....$14.50 an hour. So...yeah, I hate both Cingular and CWA.
Posted by: john doe | Jun 27, 2006 1:15:26 AM
Heh.. cwa? pft. I was terminated for something done, On my lunch, Off of cingular property..Grievance; filed. What have I heard from the Union since? About as much from EDD... (nothing)
Posted by: cwa..bite me | Jul 1, 2006 7:08:49 AM
CWA= more headache and less money.... I was terminated for what they said "attempting to eat food at my desk" haha! Can you believe that?? I had the food sitting on my desk, just like the whole rest of the call center in Springfield, Illinois, and I get fired!!! I requested a union rep to sit in on my suspension awaiting termination. The stupid ass union rep, just shook her head and said, "I don't know what to tell you Nicole" Isn't that one of the reasons they charge us union fees?? So, at my termination, I requested a different union rep. EVEN WORSE MISTAKE!!! I was terminated Aug, 2004. That's almost two years. After 6 months of trying to contact my steward, the captain, and the VP, I got no response. They had nothing to do with me. So, I ended up hiring an attorney and it is in litigation as we speek. The CWA is the worst thing that has ever happended to any company. If anything, they are working for the company, not the employees.
Posted by: Nicole | Jul 7, 2006 5:53:49 PM
Verizon wireless is a great company full of happy employees. It is a company that expresses the highest level of professionalism in the retail industry. The benefits are truly affordable, and the pay scale for retail reps is higher than any national wireless carrier, CWA or not. Not to mention if you are pursuing higher education, pre-tuition reimbursement is right at your fingertips. The company is constantly looking for new ways to reward their employees. Verizon Wireless for three years running is in Chicago's, "Top 100 Best Workplaces." It truly is a great company to work for.
Posted by: unions suck | Jul 16, 2006 8:13:37 PM
Cingular must cease and desist with it's advertising claim of the fewest dropped calls of any cellular network -- this is a totally false claim, with no proof to substantiate it. Every day I'm dropped six times or more and I never ever had this problem with Sprint, Nextel or Verizon.
Posted by: JP | Jul 18, 2006 12:55:32 PM
Verizon Wireless is a great company to work for, there is no reason to have a union. Average Sales Reps make between 60K - 80K easy and some are making 100K. They take well care of there employees.
Posted by: Scott | Jul 18, 2006 10:51:25 PM
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Posted by: dave | Jul 31, 2006 4:23:53 PM
As a "proud" dues paying member of the CWA I can say this. Do not EVER let this bunch of morons represent you!!! Part of our company is union the other part is non. The non makes more money, gets better raises, has better vacation time, better personal and sick time, only works Monday through Friday (the union part is Monday through Saturday yet they take pride is saying they brought us weekends, I don’t know who they brought these weekends to but as someone who’s locked in the office every Saturday it’s sure not us CWA represented people), the non part actually interviews for jobs and gives them to the most qualified people where the lovely CWA part all you need to do to get the job is be the person bidding that's high in seniority (what a concept there, we all know someone there 25 years and has no clue how to do a job but will bid it anyway is a better person for that job than someone actually trained and skilled at doing it but has only worked for the company a few years). People dick off & come and go as they please and the union will fight like hell to keep them employed saying they're discriminated against by being punished by the company that has every right to punish someone for not doing their job. Yet people with valid grievances get ignored by the CWA. If you can manage to actually get a person to file one everyone knows because it's talked about to anyone they see regardless if they're talking to someone in the union or not, so much for confidentiality. Oh yeah and forget ever winning anything because they don't know how to file the paperwork, they'll just mark down you admitted to doing whatever it is you're grieving and give you no shot at winning. Makes it easier for them I guess, that way they don’t actually have to take the time to represent you through the whole process if they can just say you did it and bargain down your punishment given to you by the company. With representation like this it’s no wonder nothing ever gets done and we all want to boot them the hell out of our company.
Posted by: CWA Sucks | Aug 9, 2006 7:08:29 PM
First, maybe we should clear up some apparent misrepresentations(no pun intended) about your idea of unions in general, and cwa in particular.
The reason the non union part of the company has higher wages and better benefits is precisely because of the unionized part of the company. It is proven, that when companies do not want unions, they pay their non unionized employees higher.
As far as working on saturday, i assume you are in a portion of the company that deals with customers, or interacts with techs that also work M-S. I notice you didnt point out that if you are working on Saturday, you are paid at a minimum time and a qurter for that saturday with a day off during the week.
As far as griveances, have you ever had someone sit a grievance for you? What were the results?
As far as a person with 25 years bidding on the job and getting it over more "qualified" people, are u kidding me?
Seniority is the backbone of unionism. It prevents the company from just picking people that are asskissers or friends of theirs to fill all the jobs that are available. Don't worry one day you will be in the seniority , then you too can have a job that is open and not one the "more qualified people with less time than you.
Finally if you dont like the way your union is running, get off your a** and run for steward and change things.
Posted by: jim | Aug 10, 2006 11:55:59 AM
Excellent points, Jim. I am a little confused about the union and non-union parts of this company. It would seem strange to me that there would be a mirror work force that is non-union to the one that is union, at the same location, doing exactly the same jobs. If that is not the case than any comparison of pay, benefits, etc is moot because we would be comparing oranges and tangerines. Therefore, I think the post by CWA sucks is invalid on that issue.
It is also interesting that when negotiating the contract with CWA that management of this company agreed to have a process whereby totally unqualified workers could have any job they want, based solely on seniority. Doesn't seem to be the best business move by the company to have the dishwasher repairing airplanes, just because he was there a week longer than an actual mechanic.
Grievances and discipline are always an interesting issue as in my 25+ years as a union steward, officer and organizer, I have never defended a good or bad employee. I have only defended the process. If the employee is truly a screw-up, and management actually does their job by documenting the alleged malfeasance, and then follows the contract step by step to dismiss this employee, I normally have not won those grievances. Usually, I win most grievances because management is too lazy or too stupid to follow their own rules. Remember, the union contract is really a negotiated agreement between the union AND management, it is NOT IMPOSED upon management by the union. Since I have been involved in many, many grievances over the years, I know that what is fact (documented evidence presented by both sides) is normally not what is discussed outside of the room. Management will be saying one thing to their friends, the aggrieved another to his/her friends, and the truth lies in the evidence presented. So if you are not speaking about your own grievance, you probably have no clue as to the full body of evidence in the case, and really should refrain fronm discussing the merits of said case.
As far as the disclosure of confidential information and the lack of ability in processing the grievance paperwork, I agree with Jim, and request that you step up and take on these jobs and make the changes of which you speak. I also find it interesting that early in the post you complain about the union defending the screw-ups, but in the last section you point out that the union never wins anything. I guess you just don't want people to have any due process rights, because the final result would always be the same - the person would be fired whether the union represented them or not, based upon your insightful analysis.
I suggest you take a few college level courses on unionism, its history and processes, and then get FULLY involved in your union and make it what you want it to be, rather than just whining that "they" suck because that gets absolutely nothing accomplished. Good luck to you in your union education.
Posted by: Kevin F Droste | Aug 10, 2006 4:22:08 PM
Kevin,
Thanks for your kind words.
Just a clarification of a couple of points i made. The situation I believe the other poster was referring to is the VZ Business (formerly MCI/Worldcom) and the more traditional, "core" business of Verizon, now split into different names. The problem with union/nonunion work being performed by union/nonunionized workers stems from the fact that Verizon has shifted a significant amount of work normally done by the traditional core business, solidly union (all union, as a matter of fact) into the new nonunion VZ Business. Now i know the national and all the locals have a plan to organize and bring the workers into the fold, but in the interim, it is causing people who are either not aware of why this is happening, or people with a different agenda to make noise and take potshots.
The other point is all employees are deemed "qualified" based on management criteria, hence if the employee is on an overtime list, by definition, he/she is deemed qualified to do the work in question. The most overiding factor then, is the seniority date of the employee and that is how job openings are determined. The only quantifiable everyday benefit, aside from the cba, the contract and terms and conditions of employment comes down to seniority. Everyone goes thru it at some point in time, everyone will benefit when his/her times comes to be the "senior person".
I can somewhat understand if the poster was talking about getting shafted if he/she was a senior person, and the job was filled by a person with less seniority, assuming all other factors were equal, but it seemed that this person just wanted to take pot shots at the union as a whole.
Posted by: jim | Aug 11, 2006 10:21:41 AM
